Brazilian Foreign Minister Celso Amorim said Brazil and Germany were optimistic they would be included in an expanded council as part of a sweeping reform of the institution, planned to begin in earnest next year.

"The chances were never so good," Amorim said after talks with his German counterpart Joschka Fischer, when asked about their joint Security Council drive.

Fischer, who also met President Luiz Inacio da Silva, agreed with Amorim's assessment, stressing the council needed to become a better forum for "multilateralism".

In September, Brazil, Germany, India and Japan launched a united campaign for permanent seats on the council, with mutual pledges of support for each other's candidacies.

The 15-nation Security Council has had the same five permanent members with veto power -- Britain, China, France, Russia and the United States -- since the UN was established in 1945, after World War II.

Any expansion would require the approval of the UN General Assembly and the Security Council.

Amorim and Fischer underscored the contributions their countries were making on the world stage.

Amorim said Brazil wanted "stronger involvement" in helping to resolve the Israeli-Palestinian conflict and had recently sent an envoy to the West Bank as part of those efforts.

Fischer said he hoped for a new drive from reelected US President George W. Bush to get the peace process moving again.

"In Iran, Iraq, the Israeli-Palestinian conflict -- the international community must work together with all the forces of reason and moderation in the region and this will be very dependent on the engagement of the new US government," Fischer said.

"I think this is particularly important in the Israeli-Palestinian conflict."

Fischer added that he had also discussed with Amorim a preliminary deal between Iran and European Union heavyweights Britain, France and Germany for the Islamic republic to stop its uranium enrichment program.

"We hope that the agreements with Iran on a true negotiation process can lead to the long-term elimination of the danger of a military nuclearization of Iran," Fischer said.

Though they stressed their "excellent" bilateral relations, Fischer and Amorim expressed clear differences on nuclear power.

Brazil agreed this month to replace a 1975 nuclear accord with Germany with an energy cooperation pact to include the use of renewable energy sources.

That accord foresaw the construction of eight atomic reactors, of which only two have gone online.

But while Germany has committed to a long-term phasing out of its atomic energy program, Amorim said it would be "senseless" for Brazil to do the same.

Asked whether the new pact would include a ban on German nuclear exports, both ministers said negotiations were continuing and stressed they would include a much stronger focus on ecological energy sources.

During hour-long, closed-doors talks, Lula and Fischer discussed UN reform, Brazilian relations with the European Union and the United States, diplomatic sources said.

Lula stressed the importance of fair trade in the war on poverty and briefed Fischer on Brazilian initiatives for more environmentally friendly energy such as biodiesel.

Fischer will travel later Thursday to Sao Paolo before returning to Berlin Saturday.

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